What was John's cookout speech about?
From : (Opening) (Scene opens: Palm tree blowing in the wind...) :Could this be the entry of the lord into Jerusalem? -- Fab 70.112.131.16 (Ramon says, "Hot Dogs, Hamburgers, Potato Chips. (louder) Hot Dogs, Hamburgers... Seconds will be available.") :Seemingly unimportant but takes us back to the wall and the outdoor festival/carnival feel, with the horses of the carousel to the hot dog cart. Seconds will be available... the first miracle in the book of John was Jesus turning water into and endless supply of wine. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 (Ramon asks, "Who's hungry?") :Everyone is seemingly hungry; is this more a spiritual question from the keeper of the motel (inn), Ramon, who wants to shelter and feed weary travelers? -- Fab 70.112.131.16 If my words are yours, can you hear my Father? :If I speak like you, will you understand the message I have brought? -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :What I took from this is a little different. I understood it to mean do the words that you say (and that I repeat) reflect the heart of the Father and goodness. I cite Matthew 15:11 as an example "What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'" -- Smpdawg 23:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :I agree with this take... unlike the John of the bible who is very clear and straightforward, we have John Monad randomlly spewing out seeming truths and riddles. It brings the Christian mind to question, if Jesus were to return... would we recognize him and see God? -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Jesus used parables to bring the message because the people of the time would not understand or perhaps would not listen otherwise if he explained directly. John uses their words or rather parrots their words and catch phrases ("If I speak like you") to capture their attention and build a vocabulary. In this way they will eventually understand his father's message and accept it as thier own thoughts. John uses these words seemingly randomly but as we see in this episode he assembles many of those phrases into a montage which becomes this speech. -- az Azretan 19 July 2007 :If my words are your words... A central theme of JFC God trying to communicate with us. And John's first question is: can you hear? Milch is not however going to give us some big second coming - rather he is suggesting that God is always communicating with us and that He is always there to be heard only thing is that it's hard to hear because He is speaking through others 0 just like us. Don't expect trumpets or anything like that. He doesn't ask if God can change his communication method but rather if He speaks through those around us, like us, do we have the ears to hear. 'He who has ears...' Tough to do. -- User:74.92.15.206 19 July 2007 Can Bill know my Father, keeping his eye on me? :Can Bill hear the message (of “goodness”?) if he is suspicious and untrusting? Bill = Good man blinded by doubt and hurt. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) Can I bone Kai, and Butchie know my Father instead? :I think this means that John would rather switch places and be a person and Butchie have the responsablility of being the messenger of John's Father. -- User:74.123.65.25 :I think the message is if I (John) submit myself to temptation, will I be a good example for you? Will you hear the message from my Father. The best way to lead someone is by example. -- Smpdawg 23:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :John didn't bone Kai... he showed her God. The next morning he gloated that boned her (along with some other witty sex comment i cant remember at the moment). Will Butchie know John's father through his budding relationship with Kai. Love cures. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :I agree with the first comment, if we draw the christian ideas (not story arc) in alignment with this story that comment would be analogous with "if it be possible, let this cup pass from me" "Can I bone Kai, and Butchie know my Father '''instead'?'' Although it is hard to tell John's real thoughts because most of his lines are spoke without inflection or appropriate inflection (parroted without context) Azretan 19 July 2007 :"Bone Kai" and "Butchie instead" are like his nicknames for Kai and Butchie, just as "keeping his eye on me" is part of his name for Bill. Take out John's nicknames, and it translates to "Can Bill know my father? Can Kai? Can Butchie know my father?" -- User:65.113.65.242 21 July 2007 ::I agree with the comment above. Once you can note John's nicknames for the characters and know that certain phrases aren't to be taken literally, but represent a completely different thought, you can then begin to translate what he's saying. -- 216.119.176.148 23:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC) (Room 24) (John opens the door to Room 24. He carries out a man in gray with a bullet hole in the head and places him on a bench behind Butchie and Kai.) :John 14:24 "Whoever does not love me, does not keep my words, yet the word you hear is not mine but that of the father who sent me" -- Fab 70.112.131.16 My Father's shy doing his business. Kai helps my Father dump out. :It is hard to see the message I bring, but good people with their kindness helps to deliver it. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :This one's hard. I'll get back to you on this one. It could just tie in the concept of father/son unity, and segue into the hospital scene... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :There is an ongoing theme about John "doing his business" and "dumping out" (taking a dump), first copying Butchie, later pretending to take a dump in a public stall, etc. John's taking a dump is a comic metaphor for God learning what it feels like to be a human being. If John = Jesus = God Made Flesh, then God is using John's body as a vessel for experience, so that God can be more like one of us. This includes not just experiencing emotions and temptations, but also experiencing what it is like to have a body, including bodily functions. In an earlier scene, Kai waited while John "dumped out". As Mary Magdalene helped Jesus (and by proxy, His Father) understand how to fully experience his humanity, so does Kai help John. -- rex Rexjak 19 July 2007 :My Father's shy doing his business. no grand displays of power, people must realize and accept the truth on their own. Dumping out as in purposely jumping from your surfboard when the ride goes bad. If God lives in each of us...he wouldn't need to experience bodily functions. Jesus came for us, not(directly) for God. Azretan 19 July 2007 :As Kai says to Butchie in , John asks her if she dumped out to make her feel better. Translation: Kai helps my father feel better. -- User:24.91.234.23 10 August 2007 :Kai is the mother of God. Dumping out has a second meaning of giving birth. -- User:69.14.187.161 12 August 2007 Bill takes a shot. Shaunie is much improved. :When suspicions/skeptical people take a leap of faith, miracles can happen. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Did Bill shoot someone and regret it... i think i remember him mentioning something in a rant of his about it... Could that be a future tie? and the leap of fate of course. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Bill takes a shot by bringing Zippy into Shaun's hospital room. Zippy kisses Shaun and Shaun is much improved - S User:64.132.237.210 Joe is a Doubting Thomas. Joe will save Not-Aleman. :Gees another hard one.??. alleman is an Afrikaans word meaning every each, everybody... Kem Nunn, one of the creators is a surf guy who would be have ties to South Africa. Joe did not save every one (his buddies) in Vietnam... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Thomas(the apostle) was skeptical of Jesus's ressurection. Thus the term, a "Doubting Thomas". Joe didnt believe John was really dying or this may refer to some other doubtfullness. Also, Thomas, like Joe, was a fisherman. hmm... -- Mike User:24.9.53.20 20 July 2007 :"Aleman" is spanish for "German" -- User:24.9.53.20 20 July 2007 :First part is a gimme -- Doubting Thomas=Someone who sees a miracle and still doesn't believe. -- User:71.195.243.247 9 August 2007 :As John is saying this, the camera is focused on John's attacker (knifer). Could his name be Aleman? -- LeeKirb 04:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC) :His name is Anglo. But if Aleman means everyone, or all mankind, it is significant that John would include his attacker, someone who had left him for dead. Maybe that is why they were focused on Anglo at the time. — Greg (talk) 04:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC) Joe will bring his buddies home. :Joe will be redeemed. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) This is how Freddy relaxes. Cup o' joe, and Winchell's variety dozen. :Freddy, a criminal capable of, and used to cruelty, is human (and good?) too. He wants to help Butchie. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :The crook saved by becoming his opposite, a cop hence relaxing his soul? It's also what Bill brought the night the stood watch at Butchies place. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 Mitch catches a good wave. Mitch wipes out. :Mitch hits a high, but falls. Feels pain. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :You can go further to say Mitches injury is the wipe out of his career after years of good waves. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :The miracle of levitation brings Mitchs to an alleged epiphany, only to be dragged back into the manure of pretension later on. -- User:74.75.115.187 29 July 2007 Mitch wipes out Cissy. :Mitch spreads his pain to Cissy. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Mitch pushes Cissy out while dealing with the pain of losing his career. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 Mitch's devote spiritual practice becomes a burden to Cissy who is not "endowed with the wisdom of the east" as she puts its. This illustrates too problems that pervade the story, one is that in modern society people who are overly spiritual are seen as outsiders, regardless of the religion whether your an evangelical, fundamentalist muslim or fully practicing Buddhist like Mitch, society is very skeptical about individual spiritually and Cissy is overwhelming either out of jealously or simply because Mitch becomes some who is literally above everyone else. Secondly his levitation is again a sign that he is above everyone else, in Buddhism there is an old saying, "the job of the guru is not to raise you to heaven but to bring you back down to earth". Mitch in effect takes his spiritually too far, when as he puts it all thats really important is Family. Thus in the last scene we see Cissy literally holding Mitch down, keeping him grounded, so he realizes hes just like everyone else. Cissy shows Butchie how to do that. Cissy wipes Butchie out. :That pain leads to Cissy hurting Butchie. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Cissy shows Butchie how to whack off, leading her to extreme guilt of molesting her son at 13, which causes her to push Butchie away which probably has something to do with Butchie becoming addicted to drugs to escape the abandonment of his mother. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 Butchie hurts Barry's head. :Butchie takes that pain and hurts Barry. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Butchie hit Barry on the head with a broom handle, which Barry alleges is the cause of his epilepsy. -- User:74.75.115.187 29 July 2007 :I think John says "Butchie's Mom hurt Barry's head", the idea being that whatever it was that Cissy did to Butchie, caused Butchie to become a fuck up and do things like whack Barry with a broom handle. -- User:69.230.180.210 20:55, 8 August 2007 :Butchie hit Barry with a broom handle. Mitch came in to see what happened and then went back to surfing. Barry is left with a serious injury that would later cause his epilepsy. After the injury, he is molested by Mr. Rawlins. -- User:67.8.128.14 22 August 2007 Mister Rollins comes in Barry's face. :Barry ends up in Room 24 because of the pain from Butchie (somehow) and is hurt more. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Hmm that could be... Could Barry be the one who shot Mr Rollins... There's a strong sexual allusion that cant be ignored as well... or is it just a reference to seeing a ghost/inner demon. maybe all of the above? -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :I think Barry killed the man who deflowered him in room 24? ((Billy Ocean's 13)) User:66.182.239.208 20 July 2007 :I think it was Cissy that shot Mr. Rollins. Remember at the beginning when Barry said that she offered him a kindness when he was younger? I think she killed Rollins with her pistol for hurting Barry. -- User:72.193.49.104 06 August 2007 :No, I am fairly certain the "kindness" was that Cissy called Butchie a dumbass, or something along those lines, and Barry says "these words can seem a kindness when in a position such as mine" or somethign along those lines. -- User:24.5.58.122 19 August 2007 My Father runs the Mega-Millions. :Now there is chance for redemption. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Hmmm Barry won mega millions... more for the case of John as Jesus incarnate... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Could also mean that ALL good things come from God. - S User:64.132.237.210 :Some people commonly attribute acts of fortune or providence to God's intervention. As when they win a lottery and thank God, or succeed at a challenge they attribute gratitude to God for his aid. He is stating that his father is this creator/director/overseer of this universe, alluding to John being the son of God. If his father runs the mega-millions then Barry winning the lottery (and returning) was divine providence. -- User:67.160.253.201 22 July 2007 :Barry's lotto winnings result in him buying the motel. Throughout the series this motel serves as a gathering place. -- User:12.201.72.208 24 September 2007 In retrospect, it means that John's father used the lottery to set up Barry as a conduit. (Interlude) (Scene changes to Vietnam Joe's van. John is asleep in the front seat. Joe and Bill watch through the window for John's attacker.) (Scene changes to Cass' hotel room. John enters, and tells her, "You need your camera, Cass." He leads her out of the room.) (Linc is at the beach; John appears in a reflection and says "Time to get back in the game, Linc Stark.") :What is the significance of John putting Cass directly next to the horse? Is this a "Four Horsemen" allusion? Which horseman is on a black or dark horse? -- Myxylplyk 19 July 2007 Fur is big. Mud is big. The stick is big. The word is big. :Human advancement moves slow. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Fur commenting on excess. Mud a possible reference to John 9:11-14 John being hear to clean the mud from our eyes, but also along with fur we do enjoy our mudbaths... Power hungry folk with their big sticks... the word/message of God is big... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Fur = prehistoric nomadic man using animal furs to keep warm. Mud = man learns to build mud huts, settle down. The stick = man discovering tools and weapons. The word = language. Rexjak 19 July 2007 Fire is huge. The wheel is huge. :But some advancements are great leaps that move humanity forward. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) Fire is ever-changing, ever consuming and it has no self. It is only a force of nature that keeps the wheel of change turning. Fire and wheel being huge means that change is huge, transition is huge, impermanence is the true nature of the universe everything is changing, everything is in flux. The philosopher Heraclitus said "All is fire", meaning everything is burning itself out, always changing. The line and circle are big. On the wall, the line and circle are huge. :Symbols and communication are important, and humanity has learned to communicate en-masse. A huge advancement. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Also, John keeps drawing a line and a circle with his foot. -- User:64.132.237.210 18 July 2007 :the line and the circle are mankind's use of symbols. that's big. "the wall" is the platform for communication from one generation to the next, e.g cave paintings. when the line and circle (use of symbols) are on the wall, then mankind suddenly has a record of history, which is huge. in a more immediate sense, line and circle are the 1 and O of binary code, meaning the rise of the computer. "the wall", then, is the internet, a historical record of all of mankind's digital communication, enabling mankind to share knowledge and communicate like never before, present and into the future. case in point: here we are, figuring this out together on a wiki! and perhaps a future generation will read this and understand mankind a little better. Rexjak 19 July 2007 :Cave drawings and before that drawings in the dirt. The birth of written communication. The line and circle are big. Making line drawings in the dirt gave primative man a communication tool that no other species had which was big. On the wall, the line and circle are huge. They are huge because for the first time, thoughts can be recorded on a lasting media which allows the message they contain to be much more effective and reach more people which was huge. :I think this passage and the next reflect the videos in and . Conceptually the ideas behind them are perhaps big but when they are hung on the wall and later reflected in the video, the impacts are huge. -- John Lawless 22:46, 8 August 2007 (UTC) On the wall, the man at the wall makes a man from the circle and line. :In these communications, human beings can gain greater insight into their own condition. They can see themselves. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Remember the foot drawing that John and Shawn made in unison when they first met?... it was a man from a circle and a line... the symbol is also used in maps to designate an inn... possibly tieing in the motel again. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :the internet is a snapshot of mankind. our digital thumbprint on the wall of history is in our own image. and the Word was made Flesh... Rexjak 19 July 2007 :Cave drawings and before that drawings in the dirt. The birth of written communication. The line and circle are big. Making line drawings in the dirt gave primative man a communication tool that no other species had which was big. On the wall, the line and circle are huge. They are huge because for the first time, thoughts can be recorded on a lasting media which allows the message they contain to be much more effective and reach more people which was huge. Joe Gremlin 22 July 2007 :Some of the motel gang put thier initials in the wet cement of the shuffleboard court. Under MD, a stick figure was drawn unconsciously. The circle and the line can make a cave drawing immortaliizing the great hunter, or it can make a person famous on the internet. He's speaking about the "man at the wall," ie, the artist/publicist-promoter/documentary film maker/web designer etc being the one who shapes public perception of the individual for the group. Surfing is a solitary pursuit and yet somehow it is also all about one's reputation and style as seen by others. Mitch suffers from not "being in the game" or an active participant in the part of surfing culture that exports itself to the masses. In trying to heal only himself, he allows others to suffer. Butchie has an active assistant in helping him recover his reputation, and so far seems to be the beneficiary of the most spiritual healing. He also has spent the most time of anyone with John Monad. Shauwn is learning how fame "makes you a man" ie, becomes part of maturing and must be dealt with. He tells his dad he "wants to go back" but of course fame is the ultimate genie one can't put back in the bottle. He gets advice to not shun the web designer, and to take care to control his own reputation and image rather than have his fame control him. Butchie learned the hard way when Linc promoted his bad boy image that eventually you have to live up to it all. -- kenter User:71.121.99.254 23 July 2007 The man at the wall makes a Word on the wall from the circle and line. The Word on the wall hears my Father. :Now they can spread a message. A message of good. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :While at the wall John made the foot giration and drew the man from the circle and the line. If the word means inn(motel) then all the attendees at the barbeque are hearing the father... wow thats cool... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Following from the previous verse, the collective intelligence of mankind is captured in the record of humanity that is the web and digital media. This digital record is ever-growing and evolving; it represents and codifies the life and spirit of humanity. As mankind evolves, mankind learns to hear God's message more clearly, and such awareness becomes evident throughout mankind's works and communication, hence is reflected in the evolving record of humanity that is the web. also, can this be a reference to the rise of thinking machines? machines that know god? Rexjak 19 July 2007 :Even though this is probably not intended, the word on the wall also reminds me of the expression of graffiti. Bgkarma 17:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC) :The camera also pans to a new character here, I think, some guy in a black hat. Does anyone know who that is, or can you guess as to the significance of panning to him during this phrase? wallacrw 25 July 2007 :I'm not sure who you're referring to... The camera pans over a bunch of people during this sequence, including Meyer, Daphne, Linc, Cass, Freddy, Dr. Smith and an iron horse. The only person in a black hat is Kai, who's sitting with Butchie at Gilbert Rollins' feet. I've posted a screenshot... -- Danny (talk) 02:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC) :Oh, sorry, do you mean Anglo, who appears a little later in the scene? He's got a black hat. He's the guy who stabbed John. -- Danny (talk) 02:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC) The zeroes and ones make the Word in Cass' camera. :At this point in human advancement, a camera can spread a message. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Possible reference to feminist technology book of the same title... allowing Cass a voice, could be refering to her camera as a tool for monetary gain with a negative connotation... the scene of Cass in front of the motel sign while this is said is a past scene as well... gotta go check what they were doing at the time. as they start walking the background changes to them leaving Cass' hotel... interesting as Link watches them depart; immediately after they go back onto the park complete with horse, cement mixer(??) geometric lines drawn on the pavement, and Butchie and Kai sitting together reminiscint of the two of them side by side in Kai's tailor the night they slept together... Back to "Seeing God" by being at every point all at once. genius. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :binary, dudes, binary... (language of computers) -- Mike User:24.9.53.20 19 July 2007 :yep - digital movie camera - 0s and 1s binary Cass' camera is a blunt instrument of the physical world capturing things as they appear...but not always how they truly are underneath. John later goes on to differentiate what Cass' camera sees and what his father sees (in my Father's word) - az Azretan 19 July 2007 :A 0 and a 1 are also... a circle and a line. -- User:24.20.17.36 21 July 2007 :Agreed. The zeros and ones represent the the stick figures or people that carry the message in the camera. There are many references to the fact that they must listen to the message from Cass' camera. I took this to mean that they must listen to each other and be honest with each other which could be backed up by the fact that John repeats what everyone else says. They each carry his "father's" message if they listen. It could also explain why John's apperance has brought all of these people together and why they continue to stay around each other. -- User:68.33.153.30 12 August 2007 In the Word on the wall that hears my-Father-in-Cass'-camera, the good one Mitch catches doesn't wipe Cissy out. :Things can change. We can spread that message. Mitch’s pain doesn’t have to spread to Cissy. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Cass' video footage she took at the wallwas very benevolent and religious... everything was happy and dreamlike... even when John entered the boxing ring Johns ends up just celebrating life and its good. Maybe thats what all this camera talk is about. It's showing what life could be like in a perfect setting... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Can't a 0 and a 1 also be symbolic of a man and a woman? -MW User:12.3.61.131 23 July 2007 : John here, and in the following lines, his articulating the plan of reformation and melioration which is within his, or God's, mind. -- User:74.75.115.187 29 July 2007 In the-Word-that-hears-my-Father, Cissy shows Butchie something else. :In believing in life (and good?) Cissy can spread love to Butchie. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In my-Father's-Word, Cissy shows Butchie in Shaun. :Cissy can undo that mistake. She has a chance to do right by Shaun, thereby redeeming herself. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In my-Father's-Word, Tina raises Shaun at lunch. :Tina can redeem herself. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Tina makes up for all the years she wasn't there as Shaun's mother by making lunch for him. The preparation of food is of great importance in this series. Ramon cooks for significant events. Cissy makes tuna salad for her family, and feels as though she's being replaced when Tina wants to make lunch for Shaun. Despite Cissy's demons, she is fiercely protective of her family; her role there is her source of identity and purpose. She has tried to make up for what she did to Butchie by raising Shaun; Butchie understands this, as he explains to Tina how her leaving Shaunie with them was a gift. Cissy sees Tina as a threat to her attempt at self-redemption, which is why she's so violently opposed to Tina's return. Her instruction on how to make the tuna salad as she descends the stairs to leave Tina with Shaun is Cissy's coming to terms with the realization that self-redemption is not really possible. She feels numb and utterly empty. But in surrendering to this realization, she is making room in her soul for the faith that will come to fill the void. Through seeing Shaun's resurrection and the changes taking place in those around her once they're introduced to the possibilities available through John's father, she will finally be able to forgive herself and move on. She fought it hard, but in the finale, we finally saw a glimpse of what Cissy can become once she loses all that anger and guilt. Gatorlynn 14:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC) In Cass' camera, Butchie lays the cord out for Barry, and Mister Rollins watches, and he doesn't come on Barry's face. :Butchie can redeem his mistakes, making things right by Barry, thereby taking away Barry’s hurt. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :It sounded to me like John said "lays the cord" not court, and this is what the closed captioner typed as well. If that's the case, perhaps it referred to helping Barry and Dickstein with the guide lines Butchie was helping with earlier in the episode. Vislor 18:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Lays the cord... surf talk! Butchie didnt lay the cord and Barry hurt himself surfing hence the visions from siezures as a result of the accident... maybe Mr rollins didnt end up meeting barry and nothing wierd happens... sexual or mr rollins getting shot... still not sure. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :That is interesting, but the transcript of John's speech, as published by Steve Hawk in his blog, reads "lays the court out", not "lays the cord". eegorr 16:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC) :...and they are laying out a shuffleboard court in the motel's parking lot... -- User:66.185.165.98 25 July 2007 :The word "come" in this quote might actually be "cum" as in "Mr. Rollins watches, and doesn't cum on Barry's face" refering to the fact that Barry was molested/sexually abused by Rollins at the hotel when he was younger. -- User:69.250.186.141 6 August 2007 In Cass' camera, Butchie knows Kai kept the faith. :Butchie can see that he has people that believe in him. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Butchie will understand that at least one person has always believed in him and still believes in him. Toesmom 19:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC) :Butchie will know that Kai is devoted to him, and open himself to receive her love. In my-Father's-Word, the Wave lifts them up. (John draws a stick figure on the ground with his foot -- a circle, a line, and then a fork. Palaka wakes up, and brings Freddy his saxophone.) :There is a chance for redemption. A chance to make things right and for life to be good for these good people again. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Im almost positive the image John draws into the ground is called The Labarum. A combination of the first letters of the Greek words for Jesus and Rho. Roman soldiers displayed it on their uniforms I believe. -- User:24.126.65.99 21 July 2007 :He draws this symbol 0--< It's the same symbol on the black T-shirt the cast member is wearing in this shot. Here's a shot of the actor who plays Palaka wearing a hat with the symbol on it. Room45 17:11, 22 July 2007 (UTC) In Cass' camera, Bill doesn't bump his head on the stairs. (The staircase from Bill's apartment appears in the courtyard. Bill climbs the stairs, saying, "I cannot do this. I cannot do this! I am skating on very thin ice.") :Not only does the staircase appear in the courtyard, but so does Bill! Remember that he was asleep in the truck with Vietnam Joe and John when all of this was going on. eegorr 20:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC) :Bill is "man" and his going up the stairs is like "man" rising to heaven. Death is scary and he say's "i can't do this". He was scared, but his feet kept propelling him up the stairs. ((Billy Ocean's 13) User:66.182.239.208 20 July 2007 :Did Bill's wife (Lois) die upstairs? Did he, in a desperate attempt to save her, hit his head on the stairs and knock himself out, failing? He has been taping up his stairs with bubble wrap. And Butchie mouths a comment (in an earlier episode), "his wife died" and motioned towards the taped up stairs. -- User:Jbeaman 2 August 2007 In Cass' camera, as long as he's being stupid, Bill gives Lois a kiss. (Bill reaches the top of the stairs. Freddy stands under him, playing the saxophone. Bill pulls a harmonica from his pocket, and plays.) :Bill, too, can be redeemed. So long as he has faith, he can relieve his pain and loss. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Bill says "as long as we're being stupid" when he allows his bird to kiss Shaun, before he is brought back to life. Lois is Bill's dead wife, and this may represent Bill's desire to resurrect her. RyanG 10:26, 31 July 2007 (UTC) In His-Word-in-Cass'-camera, the Internet is big. :The internet is a part of human advancement, but it’s no great leap. (It’s not huge.) -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) * I think this again goes back to days eight and nine (and perhaps beyond): John's internet communiques are indeed "big". --John Lawless 22:53, 8 August 2007 (UTC) Nine-Eleven is big, but not every towel-head is eradicated. :? A great pain to a great many people is bad, but vengeance isn’t the solution. ? -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In His-Word, We are coming Nine-Eleven-Fourteen. :? I don’t know ? Perhaps there is a chance for redemption for all of us in the future. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :It was speculated in our household that this was a reference to a biblical scripture 9:11-14. Probably New Testament? Maybe John 9:11-14? But of all the ones I looked at, Revelations 9:11-14 was the most intriguing with the releasing of the four angels sent to wipe out 1/3 of the world's population. Kilroywashere 18:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :I think that John 9:11-14 is probably what John is referring to - "The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see." John talks to Sissy about mud and then tells her to wash the gun, aka baptize it. --Smpdawg 23:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :While John 9:11-14 is probable, it's also possible that Milch was referring to Hebrews 9:11-14, which references Christ sacrificing himself to undo the sins of man. "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God." Both passages seem to fit. Allusions to the guilt plaguing the consciences of the Yosts, the the possible sacrificial death of Sean abound here. Melissasan 00:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC) :"The end is near", according to John -- September 11, 2014? Not every "towel-head" is eradicated... instead do they get nuke capability and use it? Is this too obvious? eegorr 16:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC) :Someone on the IMDB forum noted that 91114 (9-11-14) is the zip code for Pasadena, California. Who knows if that means anything. It's not particularly close to IB or anything (about 140 miles). Room45 23:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC) :Although the zip code thing is cute, I'm going with John 9:11-14, at this point in the story it is about opening eyes, seeing and giving witness. ("See God Kai) While John does say "The end is near" he is usually saying it to Link. :He answered, "The man who is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes, and said to me, 'Go to Siloam and wash'; so I went away and washed, and I received sight." Azretan 19 July 2007 :If you go to www.johnnomad.com and type "God" in the search bar, a billboard appears with a Bible and at the bottom it says Luke 11:9-14. It reads: "So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you fathers, if your son asks fora a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him! Jesus was driving out a demon that was mute. When the demon left, the man who had been mute spoke, and the crowd was amazed." -- Spdrcr5 21:13, 19 July 2007 (UTC) :no...we'll finally capture osama bin laden in 2014. -- Mike User:24.9.53.20 20 July 2007 :I think that this bit might be reference to Hebrews 9:11-14. :11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; :In 11, John (if we assume he is a Christ figure) has come to IB and good things have happened. Butchie kicked his smack habit and started surfing again. Shaunie came back to life after being brain dead. The doctor is discovering that there is a spiritual world. Barry decides to *not* kill himself. :12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. :In 12, perhaps it is the blood of John (who was stabbed by hoodlums and left for dead) which was spilled and helped spread the redemption around to the other characters in the show. Vietnam Joe certainly seemed changed for the better after "healing" John. There is a sort of positive halo effect (something that the webmaster character mentions). :13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: :In 13, John's entire speech takes place at a barbeque...which is essentially putting animal flesh on a fire, charring it. So this is sort of purification reference. The attendees of the bbq are cleansed by fire. :14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? :In 14, this section references John's call to action...he speaks of a more perfect world...and inspires them to see this more perfect world with his eyes. Like he is telling them that they are not really living until they purge themselves of regret. This would fit for Cissy (who has been suppressing regret for the Butchie skippy whipping incident). John appeared outside her kitchen window and got to her NOT commit suicide. -- Apb 06:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC) :Genesis 9:11-14 refers to the covenant between God and mankind. Revelations refers to the coming of the four horsemen and the blowing of sixth angel's horn. So far, we have had two(maybe three) instances of blowing horns. Freedy sax, Ramons trumpet, and possible Bill harmonica. We have also had an earthquake. -- User:72.193.49.104 8 August 2007 :When John revealed the shuffle board court in the season finale, the numbers from top to bottom were 9 11 14. -- User:69.249.150.125 13 August 2007 :I think this might be a reference to Zechariah 9:11-14 - "The Coming King of Zion" -- User:Bcornwell 15 August 2007 :According to unclemajohn, who worked on the show, Milch said that 9-11-14 deals with a story line of attempted genocide against Muslims. That's why John was parroting the bigoted line "Those towel heads are going to get themselves eradicated." The purpose of John's visit was to prevent this from happening. That's why John says "In my Father's Word, Nine-Eleven is big, but not every towel-head is eradicated. In His Word, We are coming Nine-Eleven-Fourteen." -- c627627, 17 August 2007 :Who is he? I read the thread over on the HBO message board where he offers tidbits about the show, and it was very interesting. Do you know his name or his function on the show? — Greg (talk) 13:15, 17 August 2007 (UTC) :The ninth book of the New Testament is Galatians. Although there are not 11 chapters, verses 11-14 of chapter one read, "Dear friends, I solemnly swear that the way to heaven which I preach is not based on some mere human whim or dream. For my message comes from no less a person than Jesus Christ himself, who told me what to say. No one else has taught me. You know what I was like when I followed the Jewish religion-how I went after the Christians mercilessly, hunting them down and doing my best to get rid of them all. I was one of the most religious Jews of my own age in the whole country, and tried as hard as I possibly could to follow all the old, traditional rules of my religion." Maybe I'm over analyzing, but it seems that this ties in well. It starts out with Paul receiving his message directly form Christ, like JFC with his father. Then the whole iradication deal. Try as he might, Paul never could irradicate all of the Christians. And finally, his conversion away from the old (Judaism) and into the new (Christianity) reflects the progress JFC speaks of when discussing the major changes in mankind. -- Jackofhearts 23:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC) :With all due respect, there are no clues in the script that 9-11-14 is a Bible passage. In the last episode, when the used car salesman (John's father) tells Linc and the other guy (who now runs Stinkweed), that Circle & line on the wall and 0's and 1' is what to turn the both of your gifts to, and not one damn minute to waste." John immediately follows that line with: Ragheads are gonna get themselves eradicated because entire Season 1 was a setup for a major genocide plot line around which the show was intended to be based. :Milch himself gave an interview on PBS one week before the last episode aired and said that there will be a plot line of impending apocalypse on JfC. :People who worked on the show said that 9/11/14 was a story line about the future, where a group of people were going to try to cause a genocide of the Muslims, and it was up to John to get others together to stop this from happening. These others were some of the characters in season 1. First John had to bring this dysfunctional family together, then all of these people who had absolutely nothing in common with each other, and some who would have actually been enemies in the real world. This group would have grown, the zeros and ones would have fallen into place, and the genocide would have been incomplete." C627627 20:20, 21 August 2007 (UTC) :Read story about genocide above. unclemajohn is the person on HBO boards that claims to have been on the JFC crew. He gives some very interesting and credible information. My guess is that "We are COMING 9/11/14" means that Milch hoped to have the show run until Sept 11, 2014 -- only 7 seasons from now. And then we would have the climactic conclusion. We Are Coming, may have meant those that are bringing the end of days, or whoever John and his Father's group was were coming to do whatever they were intended to do... perhaps destroy and renew the world. -- User:67.8.128.14 22 August 2007 :'Genocide plotline confirmed': :Source: Variety :August 13, 2007 :"John from Cincinnati": David Milch speaks :**Why the references throughout "JFC" to "ragheads," "towelheads," and "9/11 is big?" This I never would have put together but in Milch's view: :"People's expectations have been so infantilized by television that the infantilation has itself disposed us to a genocide... My belief is that the constant exposure to news, the constant exposure of the viewer sensibilities to those planes flying into those buildings explains our involvement in Iraq. We wanted to be exposed to an absolutely different show (than the World Trade Center towers falling)...But we were promised a 12-episode miniseries. We'd go in, pull down a statue and it'd be over. Now we want to get out because we want the series to be over... :It's the reason I believe the argument that the next time such a (terrorist) event takes place, we'll commit a genocide. We'll sanction the murder of men, women and children, the incarceration of Muslims the way we did the Japanese (during World War II.)'' C627627 07:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC) In my-Father's-Word, Bill sees how Freddy relaxes. (Freddy plays his sax.) :Embracing the message (of goodness?) people can break away from their prejudices and embrace their one-time adversaries as human beings just like themselves. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Bill sees Freddy playing his sax and starts to realize that they may not be so different after all.Toesmom 19:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC) In Cass' camera, Ramon wants to know who's hungry, in the courtyard and Room Forty-Five. (Bill joins in on the harmonica; he and Freddy play together.) :In understanding and embracing the message people see the good people around them, who spread their kindness. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :This was something I never did comprehend. What was the reference to Room 45? All the significant events happened in Room 24 (Barry's molestation by Mr. Rollins & subsequent sighting of his ghost; the meeting between the two lawyers; the interrogation of John by Bill & Freddy). Was Room 45 mentioned in any other place in the series? Does the number have some numerical or referential significance? :Ramon could be a representation of Peter, the rock on which Christ built his church - he's always compelled to feed people when they are in spiritual need, and Kai thanks him in the finale for taking care of Butchie all this time, as if telling him "I'll take over from here on." Just as Peter was the nurturing force of the early church, Ramon has been a nurturing force in the series. Gatorlynn 13:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC) In my-Father's-Word-to-come in Cass' camera, Doctor Smith calls Ocean Properties. (Dr. Smith stands next to Dwayne.) :In the future, Doctor Smith too will spread good. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :I think this refers more to Dr. Smith's calling the Realtor who will sell him the office space in IB so he can open a practice there to serve the "flock"; i.e., the poor he had begun his career to serve before getting sidetracked by the promise of riches in working at a "real" hospital. Once he realized how shallow that promise was, through the miracle of Shaun's resurrection and the hospital's subsequent betrayal of him, he rediscovered his original calling. Gatorlynn 13:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC) In Cass'-camera-to-come, my Father stares Not Aleman down... (Vietnam Joe is seen, standing next to Anglo, the man who stabbed John.) : Cass'-camera-to-come = the future as it appears today based on an unchanged story arc - az Azretan 19 July 2007 :Could this be a prediction of John's yelling "Stare me down" at Anglo in the finale? While I have never understood the reference to "Not Aleman", if you apply the Spanish translation theory to it, it could mean that not all men are twisted like the one who stabbed John. But the term's use at times in reference to Vietnam Joe makes me think it has something to do with his experience in the war, when his distraction by his own injury made him drop his guard enough for some of his buddies to get killed. He has carried guilt as damaging as Cissy's ever since then, and John may be saying here that his Father is the key to triumphing over such guilt. Self-redemption is not possible. Only through his Father will we find release from our past sins that chain us in guilt. Gatorlynn 13:44, 17 August 2007 (UTC) ... And Freddy sees Bill much improved. (Freddy and Bill finish their song, and smile at each other.) :The first part is not clear. Seems there will be a redemption for Aleman. Freddy will witness Bill’s redemption. (Or forgive his own prejudices when it comes to adversarial societal roles.) -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :I'm most interested in the different between Cass's-camera-to-come and my-father's-word-to-come-in-cass's-camera. -- User:71.115.197.134 You will not note my-Father's-Word, nor remember Cass' camera, but you will not forget what we did here. (The Yost family stands in a row, as if taking a family portrait, framing dead Mr. Rollins, and Butchie and Kai in the foreground. Then the spell breaks, and everyone at the cookout looks around, a little puzzled. The guests drift away. Barry smiles, and says, "We should make these cookouts a fixture.") :You won’t remember me delivering you this message. Or that it is a message to spread. But you’ll believe in redemption, and see how we affect one another. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Strangely enough, this line is also a reference to the Gettysburg Address: "The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here." Abraham Lincoln, Gettysburg Address. I thought it might be a coincidence at first, but it can't be, in light of the four lines afterwards: :Freddy: (to Palaka) And you’re even uglier than Abraham Lincoln. :Palaka: Which happens he’s got the same birthday as mine. February 12th, 1964. :Freddy: Yeah. 100 years after his murder. :Palaka: Both of us. :Room45 19:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC) :The Gettysburg thing is a nice catch. In general the cook-out occurred but not in sync with real time. Like a montage, elements pasted on a page. The cookout was a coalescence of the characters of this series in the courtyard but without regard for their actual locale. The other thing '''John was speaking to us, not them.' Like the chorus in a Shakespeare play'' Azretan 19 July 2007 : :The chorus is actually borrowed by Shakespeare from the ancient Greek playwrights, which would tie into other possible references to ancient Greece, e.g., Cass, as in Cassandra, who had visions, and the wall, which could allude to Plato's cave allegory. -- User:69.120.197.249 03:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC) : Very true but the greek chorus was made up of a group speaking as in one voice. The chorus in Shakespeare's plays was a single actor.--Azretan 03:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC) :This whole scene seems to play out like an act of communion, John saying his verses while the people line up, take, and eat. All this compounded by the celebratory performances of Bill and the Hawaiian. - Sean 22 August 2007 Category:Theories